On this episode, we check-in about the outside world slowly opening back up just in time for summer! Then, we spend the rest of the episode reflecting on how lockdown has made us think about body image. We also trace the roots of some of our insecurities and share how we’re learning to be kinder to our bodies and minds.
Okay, Now Listen Season 2 Episode 5 Transcript
Sylvia Obell: Hey y'all. Before we get into this week's episode, just a quick content warning this week we get into some deep conversations relating to our struggles with diet, culture and body image that might be triggering to some folks. Please be kind to yourself and skip this episode if this topic is too much for you right now. And please be kind to us as we open up about our own deeply personal journeys with our bodies. We appreciate and love you all so much. K? Let's get into the show.
[Music in]
Scottie Beam: You're listening to Okay, Now Listen, a biweekly show where we chat about what's on our minds, what we're bingeing and what's blowing up our timelines, I'm Scottie Beam, a media personality, content creator, music enthusiast and doer of my own mother effin’ baby hair. Okay? Check it out. Look at it.
SO: [crosstalk] Oh! We got growth.
SB: [crosstalk] A scoop-a-woop de-loop, de-loo-doo.
SO: [crosstalk] Since last episode. I see it. Who facetimed you?
SB: [crosstalk] You see the swoops.
SO: [crosstalk] Who facetimed you to do this?
SB: Nobody. I did it my damn self cus my friends ain't shit. Go ahead Sylvia. Who are you?
SO: Apparently, I ain't shit. Nice to meet y'all [laughs]. But no, I'm Sylvia Obell, as you guys know. I'm a culture writer, host, producer and lover of the Beyonce.
SB: Sylvia. It's warming up outside. It's getting, it's getting real hot. It was 81 degrees out here in Newark, New Jersey.
[Music out]
SO: I was real happy for y'all.
SB: Yep.
SO: It just gave me a lot of reminders that mostly that when it gets hot outside, it really just only means one thing. And one thing only.
SB: What's that? What's the one thing?1 What's the one thing?
SO: We're about to be out in the streets! It's time! [laughter] Mother Nature have -- is upon us early. Even on the East Coast, because man to be 80 in March on the East Coast, that is – she, she must know the vaccines are being vaxxed. The injections are like -- [laughs].
SB: Hello. The injects are being injected. [laughs]
SO: Injection -- they're running through our veins. Our superpowers are on the way. [laughs] And you know, it's really something. I know we both, you know, are pro-vaxxeed over here. So I definitely got out -- this week in fact, I'll be fully vaccinated by the end of this week. And between that and the weather, it's just like, oh my God, the streets. Are they back? I think a little bit. Safely?
SB: Oh you might be right. See, see, and it, and it crept up on my ass. Like it really like tiptoed its ass back in because I wasn't really thinking. I still thought, like this year was a dub too, Sylvia. I was like, oh, this is the dub 2 -- 2022, we're going to be back in the streets.
SO: Right. I thought so as well. Especially when new strains was popping up around the holidays and stuff. I said oh hey --.
SB: Hello.
SO: Let me buckle back in and double down because I guess I'm still in this hiz-ouse. But then -- and then the vaccines were like it was confusing the roll out, not knowing how long it's going to take to get to us in our 30s, my -- the elderly and like all of these things. And it's when, you know, they sped it up, they increased, you know, had the inventory. And I'm realizing slowly but surely me and my circle are mostly all about to be vaccinated. And it really opens way to the idea of can I get -- can I spend time with some friends without worrying about dying again? Like wow.
SB: Right.
SO: Right now. But then also, what else does that mean? Right.
SB: I mean, but I -- you know, I get excited about that hanging out with friends thing. And I'm like, oh yes, I get to hang my friends. And then I'm like, oh well, I got a few months and my body says, Girl, you going to have to start today. [laughs] Are you prepared? And so that gives me anxiety because it's like. Now, I got to be around people. Now I got to, you know --
SO: Think about how you look again.
SB: Look like something -- right, because I didn't care. Let me tell you something mamas. I was out here eating the fuck I wanted to eat. You hear me? When I said wing connoisseur, I stuck to that for the last year and a half.
SO: That's it. That's it.
SB: [crosstalk] Okay. Meant it. One hundred percent down.
SO: [crosstalk] Been in sweats. Been dressing from the waist up for these Zooms.
SB: Hello.
SO: Haven't had to worry about a thing. And so while our minds and souls and spirits are very ready to be out in these streets.
SB: So excited.
SO: It's the body-odi-odies that are a little bit of a concern. So.
SB: So I want us to spend the rest of today's episode talking more about our body image and where our unattainable expectations of what our body should look like come from. Because we -- you know, we've got to peel back the layers. There's some depth to this.
SO: There's a lot of layers.
SB: It's not just I want -- right. It's not just I want a good summer body. Absolutely not. There's a lot more to this.
SO: Oooh, okay. Let me do some deep breaths to prepare for this conversation because we're going there.
SB: Girl, I already started drinking, I already started drinking. You better pour up.
SO: Alright. Let me go get a drink before this segment. Cue the music. [laughter]
MI
SB: Okay. Let's rewind just a little bit to the beginning of quarantine. So last March. Let's go back to January.
SO: Okay. 2020.
SB: Do you remember? Yes. January of 2020. Do you remember your body goes right before -- well, not right before lockdown. January, what were your body goals?
SO: Yeah. You know, as you know, I had a big milestone birthday right before the pandemic started.
SB: You sure did.
SO: So I turned 30. And so for me, 2020 was going to be like new decade, new me. Hittin’ -- you know what I mean, like hittin’. It was even less about New Year's and more about like, okay, I'm about to be 30. I know my metabolism is slowing down. And all those other things. Like I've spent a lot of my 20s not being able to be in control of my size as much as I'd like to or even disciplined enough with working out. So I got a trainer. Shout out to Keisha. We both know Keisha.
SB: [crosstalk] Shout out to Keisha. Yes.
SO: [crosstalk] Kiesha was in the gym. And we were you know, we had -- we had a nutrition plan together and a workout plan together. So it was really frustrating for me when quarantine hit and suddenly I found myself unable to work out because I don't have a gy -- like I didn't in my New York apartment, it was like a brownstone apartment, there was no gym. I didn't have any home equipment. I was working out in the gym in her building. Not even like I had a gym membership but everything shut down, the gyms and everything. And her gym had shut down too literally. The last thing I did the very last time I left my apartment before the shutdown happened was working out with Keisha at her gym. I came home, I remember that was the last day I was ever able to leave my house. But like so I, you know, I try to at least keep up the diet part even for like March and April. I didn't drink. I wasn't drinking alcohol, which, if you know, me, you know, that's not usually much stees. [laughs].
SB: Let me tell you, my sis pours up. You hear me?
SO: Listen we all -- whatever your vice is, baby we all have them. But like I -- [laughs] but like I, I wasn't drinking and I was still trying to eat right. But the hard thing about qu -- the pandemic, especially living in New York City where groceries became hard to do on foot because I was afraid to go into a uber or anything, I was having stuff delivered. But healthy food go bad quick. So I found it really hard to even, like, maintain it. Because especially in the beginning of quarantine, Amazon was selling out. Like you couldn't get anything. Like I couldn't get veg -- it was just so hard to get stuff delivered. And suddenly I found myself having to, like, go into survival mode over health mode and getting, like, things that I knew would last me that could be frozen, you know what I mean? Like just like things that I could keep just so I could at least eat while we figure out what the food shortage is about and all of that stuff. So as those challenges came, I kind of lost it. Like by May when I realized -- I think for me, really, when it -- when we realized by May that it was like, oh, this is much -- going to be much longer than a couple of weeks or a couple of months. Like, oh, we're not going to have summer? Once I realized we're going to have summer, baby, everything went out the window. I said, well. What's up -- what am I eating this celery stick for if I'm not going to be outside. So, you know, that was really what hit me in the beginning and where I started to lose it because I was like, okay, what's the point of it? Because I'm not going to lie. Like, I wish I could say I was doing this for, like -- my my motivations were dual, like. So I wanted to feel better about my body and the way I looked, but also for me because -- especially because I'm healthy. Right. Like, my cholesterol is fine. My blood pressure is fine. I get my checkups. There was no internal health reason for me to feel like I had to make a huge lifestyle change. So when, when I realized that I wasn't really going to be outside or seeing -- and I kind of just went back to coping by eating emotionally. Like I'm an emotional eater. So, like, for me it was like, well this is now the only comfort I have as I'm alone during this pandemic.
SB: Right.
SO: What was your situation for you?
SB: Well, before January and January 2020, I did have a goal. I said I wanted to lose this 20 pounds, 20 pounds, 20 pounds. I was being sort of disciplined and was in the gym often. But when we heard about the two week, you know, quarantine thing, myself and my significant other said, we are going to go and ball out at the --.
SO: Buffet. [laughs]
SB: Shop Rite and, and get all the foods we normally don't eat, you know, and just make it like this fun two week thing. We, we, we literally ate slop. We ate everything our children -- like we had at, you know, as kids, when we were kids. Sloppy Joes. You better be lucky we ain't get no motherfucking Lunchable.
SO: Lunchable.
SB: We was like eating everything, ramen noodles. We were just eating fried chicken. We was doing whatever we wanted to do. Making potato salad, doing stuff like that. Had a great time, two weeks, eating whatever we wanted. And then we said, all right, we're going to go back in the gym when you know it opens up again. We -- you know, we're going to go back in the gym and get disciplined again. But then it was like, nah. And I was like -- you know, this is funny. Low key, I was like, you know, well, high key in front of him I was like, damn, that's crazy. Aw man. But in my head I was like, thank God. Oh my God, I won't have to show my face to anyone. I could eat as much as I want. I don't have to worry about my appearance. You know, I, I don't have to think about my weight every day, every week. And so I was just like, great, cool. I don't care. You know, at this point because it gives me so much anxiety to think about every time I go out, what I look like. How big do I look when the pictures come out? When you know -- when I take pictures or doing whatever video, whatever it is, I'm like, girl, you look big. So having to have a moment where I'm like, none of this matters. And this was also a while, like there was no zooms and stuff.
SO: Yeah.
SB: Like people weren't working, you know what I'm saying? So there was no working at all. And I was like, oh, I'm a fool. I'm acting crazy in here.
SO: Well peop -- Well, y'all weren't working. Some of us were working. [laughs]
SB: I was -- Right. But I wasn't, child, I wasn't working. Like my ind -- campaigns and stuff wasn't going on. It just wasn't a thing because who are -- who's asking people for money at the time like that --
SO: Exactly.
SB: So to buy stuff. So, yeah, I was home chillin’. And so I felt relieved, very relieved. For once. It was so freeing to just sit and not have to worry about your body every hour on the hour. It don't matter. Every hour. You know so I, I -- that was the one plus with the pandemic with me.
SO: We're talking about this, right, but even as you -- when you talk about, you know, feeling like worrying about being fat or like worrying about what things look like or these certain expectations, I know a lot of people listening are probably even surprised to even hear sprinkles of this coming from you. Somebody who they may view as their body goals or even, you know, even some people may be surprised to hear is from me as somebody who doesn't usually talk about weight. And these expectations and these thoughts we had didn't just these -- they didn't just pop up when covid did, right.
SB: No.
SO: Like these, thinking this or having these concerns, like are obviously signs of -- we both are aware they're signs of deeper things. So can you remember the first moments when you really start thinking about your body image in this way? Like, like the way you're talking about having that outside societal pressure. And why -- you know and like because clearly that's what made you feel a release not having it, right. So.
SB: Yeah, I mean, these thoughts have been haunting me since I was a kid, since I was a child. And although I was a very skinny kid.
SO: Right.
SB: But I have watched how my family, how fat-phobic my family is and also how they talk and treat people who are heavy. And also we're a heavy family, by the way. So --.
SO: Mine too. Cheers [laughs]
SB: My mother says, we're a heavy family. So it'd be the heavy ones, too, that be talkin. And I'm just you know--.
SO: Always.
SB: It's it's like, okay, damn. And they always act as if like, if you're thinner, you get treated better. And I think that's haunted me forever. I've watched people close to me, family members close to me, you know, receive like just unnecessary comments, you know, just for their weight. And I I always remember their faces when they hear it. I always remember, you know, how I could just imagine or me putting words to how they feel. You know, especially I was eight years old, seven, but I'm still thinking, you know, alright, well, if they treat them like that because of their weight, I have to make sure I'm never this size because they won't like me either. And, you know, it it torments me. And then as you get older, you start to see how true some of that shit is. You know, in high school, in middle school, I saw a lot of that treatment for you know, bigger girls than me and how they treated them. And I was, always used to just really be like, oh my God. Like I don't -- is this really a bad thing? Like is this really that horrible?
SO: Yeah. It shocked you and it scared you.
SB: [crosstalk] Is it really that horrible? It scared me and it shocked me, but it kept me it kept me from like, accepting the body that I have, always thinking that there's better, clearly. You know, and I never got, you know, ooh, we got bodies banging. Not in middle school child, and not in high school. I saw the girls that had the, you know, body banging at times.
SO: Those people who developed a little bit earlier.
SB: Yeah. They had the titties out. They had the titties in 9th grade.
SO: The hips, the booty.
SB: Right. I didn't get the hips and the booty till about 11th.
SO: 11, 12th. [laughs]
SB: And -- 11th, 12th. But yeah, I, I've always been, you know, very, very careful or scared --
SO: Yeah.
SB: About body image.
SO: I think that fear, to your point, it's placed -- and it's at a very early age. And I remember somebody saying something about like the things you learn before the age of seven and how they stick with you. Like even like why it's easier for kids to -- people to learn languages when they're younger because you just keep -- like you digest that stuff a lot thicker. So like, I think for a lot of us who grew up in families that talked about weight openly and I think being -- like, you know, that's the thing, especially with our families. Where have -- you come from a Caribbean family, right. I come from an African family. And both of those carry that stigma of like I mean, like the unhealthy toxicness of like just talking about weight openly. Like, it's like -- like it's a, it's an achievement of some sort to be smaller than that. Or like, you know, just for some reason folding to the European beauty standards that are very against what are naturally in our genetics. So I do think coming in early and, you know, thinking about like, oh my goodness. For me specifically, it was more I've always -- I watched my mom have to deal with that pressure and I think I took it in through her. You know, I -- my earliest, I don't remember a time where -- some of my earliest memories are my mom being on some type of diet. Whether it's like -- I remember an all fruit diet where she was only fruit out of Tupperware or like, the one of them beach diets where it was one of those, or one of these other things. And like for me, growing up, like my mom was my everything. She was my besties, she was my all of that. Like so if I -- was like, oh, I should watch this and like this is something I should also be concerned about. Like I remember when she -- when Weight Watchers came on the scene, I must have been like in the sixth, seventh grade, but I wanted to do it with her. I was like, let me do Weight Watchers with you. I remember stepping on the scale and like trying to deal with all these things. And it's like so early on, I was always concerned about my weight. And I remember just always feeling bigger than I actually was when I look back at it. Like I look back at my pictures from middle school and high school, especially, and I'm like, why'd I think -- like why did I think I was so much bigger than I was? Like, I was like an average size girl.
SB: Right.
SO: You know what I mean, when I was in high school and middle school and like, I almost hate that I spent so -- like, I'm like, I was smaller than I am now. So part of me is like --
SB: Did you receive any of that pressures in high school and middle school?
SB: [crosstalk] Yeah, like, I think -- I think -- well, I think for me, there's always that in high school, I feel like I definitely saw girls get made fun of for being bigger. For sure, I saw the bullying. For me I think I always because I was kind of like, in the --- like I wasn't big. I wasn't super skinny. So I kind of got to slide through in the middle of the jokes that both sides of that got, right. But it was definitely something where I think that's where the pressure of like, it became -- I think high school put the idea in my mind that like, boys want you to be small. If you want to get a boyfriend or you want them to date you, you've got to be smaller. Or you're going to be alone. Like, I think that's like a thing that I put in my mind very early on. And for me, when you talk about development, I got my boobs at a very early age. Like I, I remember I think the first time I had to wear a bra was like fourth grade. They were like Limited Too bras. Shout out to Limited Too. But like [laughs] --
SB: [crosstalk] Shout out to Limited Too. Child, just have -- okay don't get me started.
SO: [crosstalk] Yeah. Let's not get started. But like, you know, I remember having to -- the freedom people have. Like, I get so jealous of women now who are even just like, still don't have to wear bras. And I'm like, girl I been -- I've been in captive -- I've been in bondage. My have been in bondage since 1997. But good for you. [laughs] Like, you know what I mean?
SB: That's crazy. Because I was so jealous at girls who did that, at girls who had bras in '97. Girls who had bras in middle school. I was like, ooh. You just wait till I get a bra.
SO: High school definitely plagued me with the idea of like being made fun of based on your body. You know, we both went to high school in New Jersey. You know, like bombing on people was the thing, right? Like at lunch and all that other stuff. And it was like, oh, you this or oh yeah, and it was always about your out -- like your appearance. And so, like, it definitely gave me anxiety about my body early on. I think for me it definitely was always just deep rooted in the understanding of like genetically we're a bigger family so we have to work twice as hard. We can't -- I couldn't just eat like my friends ate, you know what I mean? I couldn't just -- you know, people talk about, oh man, I miss when I was able to just down five ho-hos with no issue. I don't know that life. It's always been an issue for me and my body, right. And I think unfortunately, instead of, you know, my, my family embracing, being thick, you know, and all of those things, I think it was definitely something where it was taught. Like, you know, my grandma -- parent, like my grandmother and her mother, probably all of them are very like, would not -- like they they romanticized or even just like to them, their peak of beauty was when they were at their smallest.
SB: [crosstalk] Right, right.
SO: And when their waist was at their smallest. And so for them it's like, this is the time where you're supposed to be that because by the time you get to our age, you won't be or whatever else. So like enjoy it now, but you can't enjoy it if you don't have it. And so, yeah. I always like I just remember being very insecure. I would wear jean pants in the summer because I had thick thighs, which are in now, but then they were not. So like I would be -- people, you're not hot? I'd be like no, no, no, I'm good. Like I just wearing jeans at summer camp, like it's not 90 degrees outside. Or then like, I think when I was in -- like right before college and especially in college, like I was really insecure about my arms. So I would always wear sleeves. I never want to just wear a tank top. Like it made me very insecure because I like, you know, you do a little thing where you flap your arms like Patty and see what shakin’, and not like that. So like stuff like that were always a thing. But what I do appreciate with my mom specifically is that she really did do our best to try to break the cycle. But obviously, you know, like when she when she got a hold of it for herself, I definitely remember a times where she -- like when my grandparents would come to visit her, she would put her foot down about, to my grandma, you cannot say a thing about my children or their size. You're not going to do that to them. You know what I mean, and all of that type of stuff. But even just hearing that conversation or or even seeing my mom before she was able to -- it's sticks with you with you.
SB: [crosstalk] It sticks with you.
SO: [crosstalk] Even in the, the protection.
SB: It sticks with you. Yeah, like my mom just, when she just had Deondre, my little brother, my great aunts, again, like you said, my family's Caribbean. They don't know filter. It doesn't exist.
SO: [crosstalk] What, what is that? [laughs]
SB: So - what filter? Never heard of her. So, you know, they would say things after she fresh out the hospital. Fresh!
SO: Just give her a second.
SB: Just got home. Literally. Oh, you can't eat no rice. You can't eat this. Trying to tell her what she can eat, what she can't eat. Oh, you know, you're going to be big as a house. You was big as a house. When she was pregnant, she was big as a house. She was big, big, big. And they just kept. And I could see, you know, luckily my mom -- to me, my mom has always been this, like, brush it off her shoulders girl, you know, whatever and move on. But I know for a fact, because I've seen her on Weight Watchers, I've seen her, you know --.
SO: [crosstalk] Diet.
SB: Do all these different diets. She didn't necessarily have to say it.
SO: Right.
SB: But with watching her, I knew that it was, you know, taking a toll on her in a different way. As somebody who was bullied all the time. I was bullied every single day in middle school. In high school I could fight so that that went away. But middle school, child? Middle school, I was bullied.
SO: What were they bulling you about?
SB: My skin, my color, me being so skinny. You know, I had glasses. I had buckteeth. I was not pretty to these so -- you know, the social standards. I was not a pretty a girl. So.
SO: It was cus -- but we're also through puberty where our bodies were literally growing into what it's gonna be.
SB: Right. But then they were -- but there were -- there were better looking people --.
SO: [crosstalk] Going through puberty. Yeah.
SB: Than me. You know what I'm saying?
SO: But they not now, though. I'm sorry I had to say that. Continue. [laughs]
SB: Thank you Sylvia. But every -- they always call it -- what did they -- ugly girl mentality or something like that, that I heard about where you go about life with this idea that you just ugly no matter what happens, how you've matured.
SO: [crosstalk] You're still that, you're still that middle school student in your mind.
SB: I'm still that middle school girl in my mind.
SO: Do you think that that lates to, I've heard you call it. I don't want to self-- you know that issue. I've heard you talk about body dysmorphia. Right. Do you think that, that's what informs it for you?
SB: Well, that didn't get there until college. And college that is when I started to nitpick a lot on my body. And like you were saying before, you look at old pictures and you're, like what the fuck was I --.
SO: [crosstalk] I wasted so much time.
SB: [crosstalk] Talking about?
SO: [crosstalk] I wasted so much time!
SB: Right. Worrying, anxious. But that girl back then was like, girl, I got to run. I got to lose weight. I got to stop eating. I can't eat. You know, there was a time where I went a week with just eating cucumbers and water just so I can lose weight for spring break. And I don't know, like, when you see the pictures it's like, what did you -- what were you trying to lose? But at that time, I really thought I was heavier than other girls.
SO: Or that you actually were. You actually, like you even thought maybe that you were heavier than you were.
SB: I was, of course. But I -- but yeah, I was definitely heavier than I was. But I, I compare -- I compared myself to other girls.
SO: [crosstalk] I see what you're saying.
SB: In college. And they had the banging bodies and I just had a body. I had a body, but I didn't necessarily think it was the banging body, you know. And I think from there, I never saw myself as fit. Never saw myself as skinny. Never saw myself as anything. I always just be like, I can always lose weight. I should lose weight. If anybody ever said, you look great, it's always going to be mmm, thanks, but I need to lose weight. And that's that, yes, the social media era came, Instagram came. And that's when you saw who gets what kind of attention, why they get this kind of attention. And then you say, oh, well, I don't -- I have cellulite. I know niggas won't like me now. You know? And then like, oh, I have big arms. I know -- I don't -- you can tell me I won't go anywhere publicly without some kind of thing covering my arms because I feel like my arms are huge. I just, I've become really, really careful with what I look like and what I wear outside, which is -- I mean before this, before I probably like three or four years ago, I was a baggy queen. I wear everything baggy and it was easier. It's easier. College, it was easier. I would -- I wouldn't have to worry about looking big because they're big clothes. So it doesn't matter, you know what I'm saying?
SO: Yeah.
SB: So, yeah, I think social media had a lot to do with what happened. And also like people had their ideas of me and talked about what my figure looked like. And some people said I look fat. Some people said, I look, you know, oh, she's gaining weight. Oh, is she pregnant? Oh, I get al -- you know, I get a few things.
SO: Yeah.
SB: I will say, like, this is by far the hardest challenge for me. You know, as far as me adulting, is like accepting the body that I have.
SO: How do you balance that thought -- and I think this is a question a lot of people are going to have right for you -- like how do you balance the negative with, like, all of the -- like when peop -- you see how people, you know, that your people, some people, a lot of people body goals, right. Like, you see when people share your pictures or like share your tweets and be like, how does it feel to be God's favorite? Or oh, I would drink her bath water. Or oh, Scottie Beam da-da-da-da. Or oh, her man is the most luckiest man in the world. All of those things, right. Are they just noise to you? Do the negative -- like does the one negative comment per ten positive comments outweigh? Like, how does that work in your mind for you?
SB: Sometimes the negative comments are really louder for me because I'm negative about myself, and that's me being very honest.
SO: Yeah.
SB: I try to -- I try to keep it positive, but because I always know that I, I could be better. I can look better. I could, I could, you know, do better just as a whole, I'm always going to take that -- what -- whomever's negative comment and be like maybe, maybe? You know, maybe? Maybe I do need to lose some weight. I, I mean --.
SO: Maybe that one person is right and the 200 other people are wrong?
SB: 200 people. Yeah but -- I truly think some people just -- some people are just cool. Like they're really nice and they want to spread positivity, and that's great. That's an amazing thing, I think. But when, like -- even when you say it, Sylvia, when it's like people, you know, people are going to be confused or people are going to, you know. And I'm like, well, they're not living in my head. They don't know exactly --.
SO: [crosstalk] Yeah, yeah.
SB: What I've been through and what I've, what I've heard in my life.
SO: [crosstalk] Yeah, yeah.
SB: You know what I'm saying? And so, like, when people say things like, oh, she got nothing to worry about, she pretty. No the fuck I -- like y'all don't understand. Y'all have no clue. You know what I've been -- what I've been called.
SO: Yeah.
SB: What I've been called. So, you know, and that that that sticks with me. There is shit that sticks with me forever. And I appreciate the comments. They really do help me. You know, they really do help. Comments from my friends, from my family.
SO: There's a lot of strangers in too.
SB: From everybody.
SO: Yeah.
SB: Strangers. Yes. I really appreciate that, because I do think about those and I do say, maybe I don't look as bad as I think, as I think I look. You know? And but this is somebody too, who I'm talking about myself, thinks a lot. I think a lot.
SO: Yeah.
SB: Maybe the initial thought is I look nice. But do you understand they will always be a but at the end? And taking that but out is very hard for me.
SO: Yeah.
SB: Especially, it don't matter. If it's work, if it's anything, anything. Oh you know, sometimes. Oh, you did really good hosting that thing. I know, but I could have did this and this.
SO: [crosstalk] Yeah.
SB: Oh, you look really nice. Thanks, but I'm sure I could lose some weight.
SO: And that type of nitpicking transfers over to your body as well. It's in every category of your life.
SB: Takes it everywhere.
SO: [crosstalk] Yeah.
SB: It's everywhere. It's who I am.
SO: Yeah.
SB: It's who I am. And somebody -- something that I need to change and fix. But I have to acknowledge the fact that I do think that everything can be corrected and everything could be better. Could be. Now, I don't even know what the end result is. And that's the sickening part. There -- I don't know what the end result is. I don't know what I'm striving to be. I just want to be better, whatever that looks like.
SO: Yeah. And I think it's really -- and one of the reasons why I ask you this, even though I know what you say, because I do say that to you sometimes. I think why I wanted you to speak on it here specifically is more so because I think that stance doesn't get spoken about enough from women. Like you know, when we talk about body positivity movement, usually it only includes plus sized women, women over like a size 16 or so. You know what I mean? And then like, it's like there's an erasure of the middle where it's like, yes, like I'm not like, you know, I don't have to deal with certain comments or certain stigmas or whatever else. But there is still me and my body have this very internal, personal, long life, long history that you don't know about by just looking at me and my, you know, my photos and my cute dr -- my little dresses and my bikinis and like, you know what I mean?
SB: And dresses, right.
SO: Because some people would -- and I mean, and I mean but we should give you -- you know, you don't -- like there is a lot of confidence that you should give you credit for -- yourself credit for, for being able to post those. Right. Like I, I think like I, I, I'm trying to get there. You push me to get there, right, to show more of my body on -- you know, and stuff like that and like embrace it.
SB: Right.
SO: But it's always so interesting to me about how mental this shit is because you could sit there and tell me it -- because you do. And I mean it. It's like how beautiful I am, that I should like embrace my body and da-da-da. LIke and you know show them titties girl. And, like, show them hips and like, you know, people love that and like your skin and this and that. But then it's like, when it's you about yourself, you can't apply that same stuff to you. And then I think it's, you know what I mean? And I think that's all of us, right.
SB: [crosstalk] It does --
SO: Like, I can't do that for me either.
SB: [crosstalk] Yeah.
SO: Like, I can lift you up, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I can see, like, the Lizzos and the Tierra Major, you know, the Tab -- Tabrias and all of the girls who are like, I thank so much for normalizing and like address- -like, you know, normalizing the average size body, which is plus size, and, you know, attacking fat phobia daily. I thank them for that because sometimes even though, you know, I, I fluctuate, I think between like anywhere from a size -- I mean, my adult life, I fluctuate from like a size 10-12 to a size 16-18. Like, you know what I mean? Like it really depends on which year of my 20s you're talking about. So I do think that, like for me as being on the borderline of like tipping the scale and then being plus size and then sometimes da-da-da whatever. It's it's it's meaningful to me because I -- sometimes I'm like, oh my God, they do think they're beautiful. That means I should think my body is beautiful too, because I don't. You know what I mean? I wasn't taught to. I wasn't taught to think that these are things you should be proud of. For me, it really does, for me sometimes I think to myself -- and I, and I hate that I have this thought -- but sometimes I think about me and my life and like all the things I, you know -- like, I just think about how like, oh, well, maybe, maybe my weight is the reason this this or this. Because it's like I can't think of any other reason. You know what I mean, when it comes to, like, how the world sees me or perceives me or how, you know, when you talk about social media, how many likes I may get or how many comments I may get based on, like how somebody who may post the exact same thing, but maybe be four sizes smaller than me, you know what I mean? Like these things play into your, your mind. And I think sometimes with social media, it's like I will see, I will see even the mean things men may say to you in comments. And I'll think to myself, like if they think that about Scottie, what will they think about girl -- what do they -- they must really hate women who are my size. Because you know what I mean? Or like, or if, if I see women who are like half my size stressed out because of what society does to them, I'm like, what does that mean for me? And, you know what I mean?
SB: [crosstalk] Right.
SO: Who's like even I would love to even get there, you know what I mean?
SB: [crosstalk] Right.
SO: I think it's like we're all working off of each other's issues and it's just this very complicated, deep rooted web of us all telling each other that they were great, but not being able to tell ourselves that.
SB: [crosstalk] To receive it.
SO: And then that impacts how much we think people are telling the truth.
SB: The feeling is fleeting. You know, I think the the feeling -- I could feel like the shit, I am the shit. And when I take pictures? Somtimes like, girl, this is a nice dress, this is nice. You look good! All right. Now. That won't last for longer than 20 minutes after the dress is off or whatever. I could stay in the mirror and say, all right, but you got to get these done. You gotta -- you like -- you got to figure out how to get rid of your cellulite. You got to figure out how to get rid of these arms. You got to figure out how to get rid of this neck. You got to figure out -- like, I literally sit there and pinpoint and I'm not thinking about anybody else because I think everybody else is so beaut -- which is -- it's true! Like, I think everybody is so beautiful. And I'm like, look at her, she looks good. Look at them titties. [laughter] Look at that body! Look at the -- like, I am the biggest fangirl ever --.
SO: [crosstalk] Right.
SB: Over everyone else but myself. And I'll fangirl for myself for 10 minutes.
SO: We don't tend to quote -- I never really -- we don't think we've ever quoted a white woman on this here show, podcast.
SB: Yeah. Oh you about do it right now?
SO: I'm about to lean in on it. Lean in being the keyword.
SB: [crosstalk] Alright. It's still women's history month.
SO: [crosstalk] [laughs] You know. So we can -- gonna give this to Elizabeth Gilbert, her moment here because in Eat, Pray, Love, I really do feel like -- there's a scene where Julia Roberts' is character when she's in Italy and she's talking to her friend who's afraid to eat the pizza because she's like, I can't. I've had too much carbs this week, whatever else. I don't know, remember the scene exactly. It is on Netflix, though, so, ha, check it out. But it's -- she says to her, have you ever been about to have sex with a man and you're naked into the bedroom? And he says, never mind. Actually I changed my mind.
SB: No.
SO: I'm out. Like has that ever happened to you or anybody, you know, even? And she's like, that's because he's in a room with a naked woman. He's won the lottery. [laughs] For most men, you know what I mean? Like, in the sense where it's like, I -- that's never happened to me either. That's never happened to any of our friends. I've never had a phone call, and I'm like my girl. I took my shirt off and he left. [laughs]
SB: You'll never see you'll never me again.
SO: [crosstalk] You'll never hear from me.
SB: [crosstalk] You'll never see me ever. Nobody will ever hear from me.
SO: But, but like, even though we know that to be true, we still -- and even though, and not to, not to put it all on us to because men know that to be true. And we'll still talk all this stuff on the Internet, but know damn well if they were in a room with that girl naked, they would do what they wanted to do, you know what I mean? And then they'll pretend whatever else. So it's like this thing of like what we see online versus like what we know to be true. So I know that, like, in all my days, I've never had a man be like, uh actually nah. But in my mind, I still think to myself, am I single because I'm plus size? Or like, am I single because I, you know, like I can't think of anything else. Like, I know I have a beautiful face. I'm confident in that. The skin glowin --
SB: Slap the dapt.
SO: [crosstalk] You know what --.
SB: [crosstalk] That's a ta-ta-ta fact!
SO: [crosstalk] Ta-ta-ta! Okay? These features? They're hitting! You're not gonna convince me otherwise.
SB: [crosstalk] They're here.
SO: The glow is here to stay. The skin is smooth all across.
SB: [crosstalk] The titties is there. Okay?
SO: [crosstalk] They're sitting. The hips are there as well.
SB: They thighs is there. [laughter] The complexion is very much so present, bitch. So I don't know --
SO: [crosstalk] But listen, the career is there. The success is there. The bank account --.
SB: [crosstalk] The success is there.
SO: Is sitting just as nice as the titties are so I can't think of any other rea -- you know what I mean when I'm just thinking logically.
SB: And it's not you, nigga. It's not you. It's not you, bitch.
SO: Yeah it -- [laughs].
SB: Clearly. We ran down, we ran down the list. It's not you, ho.
SO: [crosstalk] And so my only thing that's left is, oh, was it because I have my waist isn't snatched? Is it my waist?
SB: No.
SO: That's the only thing I can think of.
SB: [crosstalk] No.
SO: Maybe it's because, you know, I got a little bit of a lower belly, you know, I don't know. But it's really -- it's -- and it's not and that's obviously not always it either. But like that's the voice in my head, right. And so I, to your point, where it's like I know this logically, like the Elizabeth Gilbert thing I said. But then in my mind, I still think this. And to move, I think because this conversation's already going there, moving to where we are now with our bodies, because this is what we're talking about. When we talk about outside opening up again, my fear is like, oh, my gosh, I want to be a hot girl. But also, do I not feel enough like a hot girl? What's going to happen when I do find myself in a situation where I'm with the guy again and will I -- I'm terrified because I've, I haven't had to deal with those thoughts in like a year. You know what I mean? So, like -- or over a year. Let's not get all in my business. Let's say it's been a while. So, you know what I mean?
SB: [crosstalk] Right.
SO: To say like, that's -- like those are the, those are kind of where I'm at. And I want to know, like, do you have any concrete plans for how you want to be in your relationship with your body moving forward?
SB: I plan to be in a more healthier one. You know, I guess we're talking about like what's next for us. And I would say, like, I'm going to therapy. I'm trying to do what's healthy for myself. But I also have to understand that this is 30 -- well not 30 years, this is 24 years of me worrying about my body.
SO: Those six years were bliss, weren't they? Those first six?
SB: Yeah, they were amazing.
SO: Continue.
SB: But 24 years of deep rooted, you know, traumas that I have to go through myself and I have to be patient with myself with doing so. And I would advise everybody else to do the same. You know, I do want a hot girl body for the summer. I know that I do. But I have to go about this in a more healthy manner than what I used to do, which is like eat cucumbers and water for a week and hope for the best. It takes time and it's something that you have to be patient with. This is your body.
SO: Yeah.
SB: You know?
SO: And I think to your point, even when you talk about the therapy and what specific might that look like? Because a lot of this is our mind, right? Because I think if anything this shows, right, even looking at you and me, two women at two different sizes, with two different bodies, both having the same insecurities. It shows it doesn't really matter. You can lose 50 pounds. If in your mind --.
SB: [crosstalk] In your mind. Absolutely.
SO: You haven't fixed -- If you haven't left those -- if you can't put those voices away, you're always going to feel like this, right? Like we are seeing literally Scottie could have a thousand likes on the tweet of a picture or whatever else and still feel how she feels. Right. Or I can have a thousand likes on the picture and still feel how I feel. So for me on my list, therapy and talking like, I'm trying to work this through in therapy has been very high up on there because I know it don't matter how hard I'm working out or whatever else, especially with my relationship with food. Because for me it's doubled -- and where it's like, you know, I come from a long line of emotional eaters. I think a lot of Black family subbing food for feelings.
SB: Right.
SO: You do good, your momma cooks you a good meal.
SB: Right.
SO: You do bad, you get whatever else. Or like if you're happy, you're this. If you're sad, you eat. And from -- like, you know, and all these things. I think for me, I'm more recently realizing how much I use food as a protection even. And like a very like toxic back way where it's kind of like, I think sometimes when I'm afraid of the world or even just afraid of how messy relationships and love can be, or after I've been hurt or heartbroken --.
SB: Right.
SO: Sometimes I find myself eating and I'll tell myself it's because I'm just looking for comfort or some type of happiness in a way that put that in whatever that meal is. But also I'm coming to terms with it sometimes after certain hardships, do I pad on weight as a protection because I have that deep rooted idea that if I'm a little bit bigger, men won't want me.
SB: Right.
SO: And so that will distance me from men. Because I'm -- like in the moments where I'm afraid of men and afraid of being hurt --.
SB: [crosstalk] Right.
SO: Do I pad on weight to --
SB: To -- yeah. Subconsciously fool yourself into making yourself feel better, you know what I'm saying?
SO: Yeah. Or like that, okay, now nobody will bother me.
SB: Right.
SO: [crosstalk] Because they won't want me.
SB: And I know why.
SO: And I know why. And now I'm -- so I'm in control of the why and now I don't have to wonder what the why is.
SB: [crosstalk] Right, right when that's not.
SO: [crosstalk] Damn, you -- you even helped me get to that next step just now. I haven't thought about that.
SB: Yeah.
SO: Thanks for giving me something to work -- to talk to about old girl, with my girl on Wednesday.
SB: Yeah.
SO: But like it is like -- yeah, like the those are I think like the internal toxic voices that I know I have to work out mentally because even now there are -- I know. I know -- and you know, some of these men may be listenening. Like listen girl, I told you yesterday --.
SB: [crosstalk] I take --
SO: [crosstalk] Now! [laughs] But -- [laughs]
SB: [crosstalk] Knee to forehead, ho. Right now. But what I'm saying, like, yeah, it's it's the toxic voices that you have to deal with. For me, it was the strive to be better because I know that people get treated better when they are the perfect person. And that's what I always thought.
SO: It doesn't matter.
SB: Yeah, and then the harsh reality of like that not being fucking true at all. You know?
SO: [crosstalk] And then it's like so what does that --
SB: [crosstalk] It don't need even motherfuckin exist. But in some part of me, the child in me still thinks that if I look better, I'll feel better and I'll get better treatment.
SO: And I think that speaks to why, even when it's the things of like when people are like, oh, I can't believe this person got cheated on. Or oh, I can't believe, Saweetie, whatever. Oh, I can't believe Beyonce had to deal with this. Or oh I can't believe -- it's because it doesn't matter.
SB: [crosstalk] Right and --
SO: You can literally be Beyonce and get mistreated.
SB: [crosstalk] Right, right.
SO: And like and it's like, it's a harsh reality to swallow.
SB: Right.
SO: And so you don't -- you know, you do whatever you gotta. And in some ways for you it's protection too. But we -- but we have to, I think the first step is knowing that these are not the -- this is not the truth and that we're telling ourselves lies.
SB: Right.
SO: Right. Like, these are -- everything Scottie and me just listed our lies we're telling ourselves. And then it's like, how do you then work from there?
SB: Right.
SO: But that is what I've been able to identify as the such an important first step. Before meal planning and calorie counting and how many reps. That is where the work starts.
SB: Right.
SO: And for two women like us who are very high achieving and have very high expectations for ourselves, I -- it's, for me, and I believe this is a treat for you, too, is like, when there's the one thing we haven't been able to tackle or find discipline in, like for me that's been my weight or whatever else, it feels like a failure. And then like I add it to feeling like a failure for me. Like, oh my good -- I was able to do this, this, this and this, but I haven't been able to work out consistently. I found the area where I'm a failure and this is what's going to hold me back.
SB: Right.
SO: And I know that's not the truth, but it's because I have, like we said, we nitpick or we have high expectations for ourselves and just pressure to meet high standards in every facet of our life.
SB: [crosstalk] Right.
SO: And it's hard.
SB: Also my mom has been -- she's told me about documenting your body, which is why I don't mind taking pictures with the body that I have. She's big on knowing and understanding the evolution of body, of your body and being able to celebrate those. Now the celebrate part getting to, I'm trying. But my mom has so many pictures of herself in a bathing suit. It don't matter the era, it don't matter the decade, [laughter] my sis goin’ wear a bathing suit and go and take these pictures because--.
SO: One thing by Shayla, she goin look good, honey.
SB: She gonna look go-go-good and be like, y'all will choke on Facebook, you hear me? And don't try going on Facebook looking --.
SO: Facebook?
SB: Don't try go on Facebook looking for my mom's bathing suit pictures because I'll slap you. [laughter] But I -- yes. My good sis will be on there showin’ but she loves, you know, and appreciates the evolution of our bodies. And this is the body that had two kids and this is the body that loves her children.
SO: [crosstalk] Yes.
SB: And these are the -- you know, and she she talks about her body in such a great way, a very inspiring way.
SO: It's important. I agree with that. Because when you look back at these pictures now, you're going to say the same thing. Like when you're in your 50s or 40s, looking back at these -- that slaying bathing -- bikini trips you hit a with over the summer or whatever else it was, you're going to think to yourself, I can't believe I didn't think I looked like this.
SB: Which is why, Sylvia --.
SO: [crosstalk] Yeah.
SB: You should be taking pictures, motherfuck now. I need to see more. I need more skin. I --
SO: I -- you see me. You see me! I've been inching in --
SB: Inching in. Bitch, I need feet. I need foots! [laughter] I don't need inches. I need foots in.
SO: Feets, feet. I need yards.
SB: I need feets. I need yards.
SO: Okay, well that's what this summer is going to be. You know, I've been in the house by myself. I know -- we're not all locked in with a photographer, so we're doing the best we can.
SB: [crosstalk] Right. Right.
SO: But -- [laughs].
SB: I got one more time to see that shoulder, Sylvia and I'ma lose it. Give me more than shoulder, you hear me?
SO: you would say -- But why, this is really shady is I got a -- I got the shoulder ad now. So I -- that really felt like a personal attack. [laughs].
SB: Because I -- What do you think I'm lying?
SO: No, but it's like we're on Zoom!
SB: [crosstalk] One more time.
SO: [crosstalk] What else they goin see? I got -- [laughs]
SB: [crosstalk] Give me some titties. Give me something. Show me something cus you got it.
SO: [crosstalk] Well when we outside and people could see my full body, for sure I'm going to. But that's so -- to bring it back, that's the goal.
SB: Yes.
SO: Now that outside is opening again, even though we might -- and we're not saying we're going to achieve it. But, you know, our bodies, especially after a pandemic, a health crisis, kept us together, protected. That's kept us alive. You and I, we're fortunate to not catch covid in a year of that. Like, I, I feel like such like my -- our bodies have done so much for us. They've kept us alive for 30 plus years and they deserve better from us. We deserve better from us.
SB: [crosstalk] That's right.
SO: And I do think that you know, hopefully the goal for the summer, wilin'. I am kicking myself about not realizing that the gates were outside were going to open sooner than I thought. I also need to be like, well outside you're going to get the body you going to get.
SB: Right.
SO: And you hopefully you'll love it. And hopefully -- you know, I can get past that fear of being afraid of -- or just the thought, like going out and not thinking about with everybody thinking about my body right now.
SB: Right.
SO: You know, so.
SB: Yeah. Let's work on this together, Sylvia. All right?
SO: I'm -- I think -- and I mean, I'm so happy we had this conversation with one another, Scottie, because I do think so many of the women who listen to us, I know they're going to maybe be surprised that both of us feel this way. But also, I hope that they know that you're not alone for other women who feel this way, who like couldn't even -- you know, like that, you know, watch, maybe feel like you're watching the body positivity movement from the outside looking in.
SB: Right.
SO: And like just want to be a part of it. Like sometimes I feel like SpongeBob in the house while Patrick and Scooter are running outside --
SB: [crosstalk] Right. Are having fun outside.
SO: I wanna do that too! Mentally I need to get myself outside.
SB: Yeah.
SO: But like hopefully you guys listen to this and know you're not alone.
SB: Yes.
SO: Cus you're not.
SB: Because body positivity, yes, can exist for other people. Because I see a lot of people hype everybody else up. But give yourself some of that hype, you understand.
SO: Yes.
SB: You know? So right back at you, Sylvio. Thank you for being so vulnerable. This is your first talk child, because let me tell you something, I am drunk, y'all. I, I'm at the point --
SO: That's the only reason we didn't cry. I don't -- I was about to say, I don't know how we made it through this with no tears --.
SB: [crosstalk] Without crying.
SO: And I was like yes I do, it was tequila.
SB: Right.
SO: Tequila's how we made it through with no tears. [laughs]
SB: Because I haven't -- I don't -- I talk about it but I don't talk about it in depth like that. I think this is the deepest I've ever gotten where, you know, I'm totally afraid of how you guys will think of me after this. But --.
SO: [crosstalk] We're going to be --.
SB: [crosstalk] I want to thank you listening --.
SO: [crosstalk] I hope you will be gentle with us. Yeah.
SB: Yes, I'm hoping, I'm hoping and gentle with us.
SO: Like we're trying to be with ourselves.
SB: So thank you, listeners, for sharing this moment with us. We appreciate y'all. I love y'all.
SO: Agreed. Truly.
[Music in].
SO: Well, alright, that's our show. Thank you all for tuning in.
SB: Our show is a production of Pineapple Street Studios in partnership with Netflix and Strong Black Lead. Shout out to our team. Our Managing Producer is Agerenesh Ashagre and Our Lead producer is Jess Jupiter. Our music is by Amanda Jones. Special thanks to Max Linsky and Jenna Weiss-Berman.
SO: Make sure you share your gentle thoughts with us on this episode using the #okaynowlisten. Follow Strong Black Lead on the socials @strongblacklead and follow us too. I'm @sylviaobell
SB: And I'm @don'tcomeatmewithnobullshitbecauseIwillliterallylightyourassuponTwitterifyouthinkthatyou'regoingtocomeatmeorSylviaaboutmythoughts, @scottiebeam. Thanks, guys. Until next time. Thank you for coming out.
SO: Stay blessed! [laughs]
SB: Stay blessed.
SO: Oh my god. But correct. K. Bye.
SB: Dead as. [laughter]
[Music out]