On this episode, we start by checking in on some of the new Netflix shows we’ve been watching: “My Love,” “In Our Mothers’ Gardens” and “High on the Hog.” Then we do a deep-dive into two of the messiest 90s Black love classics, currently streaming on Netflix, “The Best Man” and “Love Jones.” We discuss who deserves to catch hands after cheating, what constitutes as ‘acceptable’ cheating, and we call out the worst best man in movie history, Harper Stewart.
Okay Now Listen Season 2 Episode 10 Transcript
[Music In]
Scottie: You're listening to Okay, Now Listen, a biweekly show where we chat about what's on our minds, what we're bingeing and what's blowing up our timelines. I'm Scottie Beam, a media personality, content creator, music enthusiast and a wing connoisseur.
Sylvia: And I'm Sylvia Obell, culture writer, host, producer and lover of Beyonce, who has been -- haha -- slayin on Instagram as of late I'm hear to say.
Scottie: My girl went outside. My girl went to the game.
[Music Out]
Sylvia: She's setting the tone. She's giving very much hot girl summer. But my man is actually not even picking me up after. We're here together. [laughs].
Scottie: We're here together.
Sylvia: Which, Scottie, you were giving a bit of that this weekend, too. I saw you out in Brooklyn a bit. Have you been holding up over there?
Scottie: Oh, yes. I finally stepped outside. You know, it was a good idea. It felt really good to see a lot of people that I missed, a lot of faces that I have missed seeing the past year and a half. So it was fun. I had a good time. I got really drunk.
Sylvia: Ha ha!
Scottie: I got a lot of tequila. And the best part about it is like, I had a boyfriend who could take me home --.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Home. [laughs].
Scottie: And ordered me food and then watch me pass out. I was a great -- it was a great idea. I didn't have to do anything. My phone died. I didn't have no problem. [laughter] He had that all situated. He held my purse, thank God, because I don't know where --.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Held your purse.
Scottie: I was in the middle of the dance floor. I was dancing, child. I was out. Walking around, having a good time. So yeah, it was fun. We had a good time.
Sylvia: Good, good, good.
Scottie: That's pretty much it. But like the week before, I've been like in the house. I was like in it. I was not going outside. I took a few walks and that's pretty much it. But I spent a lot of time watching, binge watching a lot of the shows that I found, I saw like this show, My Love, guys look it up
Sylvia: On Netflix?
Scottie: On Netflix. Six long time couples in different parts of the world share their decade love in these tender portraits filmed over the course of one year. And these are old ass couples. These are couples that have been together for 40 plus years. Like they know each other and they grow with each other. They've evolved with each other. Also, it's in different languages. So if you're not into subtitles, this may not be for you. But I loved it. I cried my little eyeballs out. It was good.
Sylvia: You're such a little sap for love.
Scottie: I'm a big romance fiend. Like it is something that's just -- you have to watch it though, Sylvia, please.
Sylvia: Okay. Okay. So we're going try -- we're going to try to watch them all, guys.
Scottie: Go and watch all of them, Sylvia.
Sylvia: [laughs] But you also you actually, you were talking maybe out a few things. I feel like you mentioned another show. What was it that you were into this weekend -- last week?
Scottie: In Our Mothers Garden.
Sylvia: Ah, yes. In My Mother's Garden.
Scottie: Yes. Yes, it celebrates the strength and the resiliency of Black women and Black families through the complex and oftentimes humorous relationship between mothers and daughters. And if you know us, you know we love our mamas.
Sylvia: Right. [laughs]
Scottie: So it was a great, great piece. I left there feeling so inspired. I had my head held up. It was -- it made me cry, made me think a lot about legacy. It made me think a lot about my ancestors, where I come from, who I'm the daughter of. It was very powerful. They did their thing with that. It was shot beautifully.
Sylvia: There's a lot of familiar faces in there, too, that we know. Shout out to Yolanda Sangweni that I saw who I used to work with at Essence was in it.
Scottie: Oh yeah.
Sylvia: I speak Yolanda. Who else? I don't know, I saw -- I feel like I saw, also like --.
Scottie: Tarana Burke was in it.
Sylvia: Yeah, I was bout to say Tarana Burke. I like the, like the women that they chose to highlight to tell these stories too. Thought that was cool.
Scottie: Yes. Tell their history, history. Like American history and what they've done to make this world better because they have.
Sylvia: Yeah.
Scottie: It's incredible. Black women do everything. We really -- we have every title. It's insane.
Sylvia: We do. We do.
Scottie: You have to watch it though. It's beautiful. And it makes me kind of sad that, like, I don't know how far my lin -- like how far I can go.
Sylvia: Yeah.
Scottie: Because I don't know past Beliz or, for my father's side, I don't know, past the South. So it made me really want to look into doing a DNA test, even though people be saying don't do that DNA stuff because the feds will get you and then you will be tied to a murder.
Sylvia: They got us anyway.
Scottie: True.
Sylvia: They got us. Y'all think y'all face recognition on the iPhone, is just happening how? [laughs] Don't get me going on the conspiracy theory? [laughs]
Scottie: Thank you. I'm going to say, thank you, because I was get into it. But to hear you say it makes me feel like, thank you.
Sylvia: Every now and then I put on my red eyes and Kente cloth hat with you.
Scottie: Yes. [laughter] That's a fact. That's it. And so I would be tied to 18 murders right now. It's insane. But yeah, Sylvia, what's up with you? What you've been doing? What you've been watching? What's going on?
Sylvia: Well, so before I get into what I've been watching, we have to, have to, have to talk about High on the Hog real quick.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Oh! Jesus.
Sylvia: Because I have seen everybody on Twitter talking about it. You were like, Sylvia, you got to watch this show. We were just talking about legacy and ancestry and tying it all together. And I think High on the Hog -- I haven't finished yet. I know you finished it.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Yes, child.
Sylvia: But it's so beautifully done and I just love the concept. It's our favorite thing time -- six degrees, back to Blackness, food, everything you can do, like how it all ties back to us. And then just the emotional journey of it too. Like it's just so much history and just soul in these cuisines.
Scottie: Again, Black people who literally have done everything. Everything. Y'all crusty white people would have no mac and cheese that y'all call a whole meal, but y'all would have no mac and cheese. If it wasn't for us, it wouldn't exist. I hope they found out. I'm sure who told the white people that mac and cheese was a Black thing and Black -- a Black man actually made that. But I hope they understand the impact that mac and cheese has on this country. [laughter] Like it served everywhere.
Sylvia: Yeah.
Scottie: And white people really serve it as if they fucking made it. And they never even did that. I knew that. So I loved High on the Hog. It really -- it made me think a lot about my family from the country and how grateful I needed to be when I was younger about the food that I was eating. Back then I was like, oh, this is so country. Ugh, I hate fried okra. Ugh -- because my grandma used to make okra and bacon and I used to be like, why? This is just not. But this was her way of feeding and loving on her family, you know.
Sylvia: Yeah.
Scottie: Food was love. Food is love.
Sylvia: It's all we had to pass down, like you mentioned.
Scottie: Exactly.
Sylvia: Like, you know, a lot of Black American grandparents and great grandparents, all they could do was at least pass down these recipes because everything else was taken away, their relatives, their history, their knowledge.
Scottie: Right.
Sylvia: But what I love about watching shows like this, even as somebody who doesn't have American parents, is also just seeing how much and how easily I can tie back some Black American meals to Africa. And it just shows that, like, we have the proof and we know it, but like, look at how we're all connected. Like even though people lost the memory of it, the food still continued and to evolve. And I think that's so beautiful.
Scottie: Shout out all the people who just found out that you've never had a yam before. Shout out to all of you. We're holding you close and praying.
Sylvia: [laughs] Yeah, that episode. Well, I, for one, have been excited that Netflix recently picked up the mother of all messy Black love classics.
Scottie: Lord Jesus.
Sylvia: Love Jones and The Best Man.
Scottie: [crosstalk] Child.
Sylvia: Now, anybody who knows me knows I love me some Love Jones. I've brought it up on plenty a-episode on this podcast. I tweet about it regularly. I watch it on Instastory regularly. Like if you follow me, you know, you know. But this week we're going to finally give it a well-deserved deep dive and debate, who was right and wrong in the relationship breakdowns in both of these movies. The Best Man and Love Jones.
Scottie: Yes, we are. And before we get into that, I'll just give a quick little plot refresher for all of you folks who haven't seen 90s movies in a while, which, I don't know why you're listening to this podcast, but God bless. [laughter] But you know what? Welcome. You know, welcome Black person who've never watched these movies. Welcome. Hi. I hug you. I embrace you. [laughter] So in The Best Man, an old college friend group gets together a few years after school for a wedding, and a whole bunch of drama ensues from all directions. But it mostly circles around The Best Man of the wedding, Harper, played by Taye Diggs, who has some kind of romantic connection with nearly every damn woman in the cast, [laughter] including the damn bride.
Sylvia: That is so triflin, but it's true.
Scottie: It's a damn shame.
Sylvia: But are we going to get into that! Okay. And Love Jones, of course, is the quintessential movie about on again, off again, Chicago love story, starring Nia Long and Larenz Tate. And it's all spoken word and poetry and beautiful cinematic shots!
Scottie: Mmm!
Sylvia: Ugh! And we're going to get into the culture of it and the dialog and you know, for a writing-ass bitch like me, it's it's my thing. It's my thing.
[Music In]
Scottie: Yes. Okay let's get into it. All right, so there are plenty of love triangles in The Best Man, but we're going to focus on the one between Harper, Taye Diggs' character, and his faithful loving --.
[Music Out].
Sylvia: To a fault.
Scottie: Girlfriend, Robin. To a damn fault. Robin, played by Sanaa Lathan. And Harper's Crush from college, the very desperate Jordan, played by Nia Long.
Sylvia: Wow, wow, wow!
Scottie: Now --.
Sylvia: We're not going to do that.
Scottie: Not, not --. [laughs]
Sylvia: Let's just get the intro without -- don't do that to Jordan.
Scottie: We just did it to Robin.
Sylvia: But we gave her -- those are positive attributes. Faithful?
Scottie: [Crosstalk] You said, to a fault. To a fault --
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] But like, it still -- but it still makes you a good person. [laugh] It -- Harper is the real villain. We're just going to remember that Harper is the real villain.
Scottie: Harper is the hoe.
Sylvia: And we're going to -- so we're going to get into this because, I mean, for those of you who have been longtime listeners of this podcast, you know what we how we feel about Quincy McCall in The Best Man. And I think that Harper --.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Y'all won't let me forget it.
Sylvia: Harper is the only other Black man character that Scottie probably stays more than Quincy McCall's bitch ass. So. Let me start with the setup. The setup is that Mia and Lance, their two college friends, are getting married. Harper is the best man and the whole college crew is kind of getting together, coming into town a little bit earlier to spend some time and handle some wedding shit before the rest of the guests come. Harper leaves Robin, his girlfriend at home, for the weekend to start out, you know, and she's going to come meet later. And because of this, him and Jordan kind of get to see each other and reconnect. And Jordan sees it as a bit of an opportunity to see if they maybe would have another shot together. Now, to cut to the chase, at a certain point in the movie, Jordan basically tells Harper that she feels like this is their chance, that they've you know, they've had a couple of times in college. There's little -- there's some flashbacks in the movies to times in which they almost had sex but didn't. And now that they still, they see each other and there's that chemistry there. And Harper -- and this is my main thing -- Harper is just not giving any signs about Robin and him loving her at all this whole weekend when they're together. I think that Jordan sees this -- trys to seize the opportunity and say -- she pulls Harper aside the night before the wedding and says, like, I want to make love to you tonight. I feel like this is our chance, dadadadada. And all Harper says, in my rewatcing this is what kills me is, Harper's silent and says, Robin's coming tomorrow. He doesn't say, no. He doesn't say, I can't because I have a girlfriend. He's like, Robin's coming tomorrow. And what Nia does, which we can all agree fucked up is just kiss him as a result of him saying that and tells him to think about it. What's up for debate here and what we're going to talk about? Is it wrong for Jordan to have done this? And whose responsibility is it to draw the boundary in this equation?
Scottie: Let's just -- I want to start this off by saying, it's always going to be fuck Harper. Every day. Forever. I want a shirt that's going to say Always Fuck Harper. It's going to be fuck Harper.
Sylvia: The backdrop of just put that at the end of every sentence.
Scottie: Right.
Sylvia: Imagine that that's at the end of the sent -- every sentence we say moving forward. [laughter]
Scottie: He's a horrible human being.
Sylvia: Harper, is the worst kind of fuck boy. He's like a Lawrence from The Best Man. And what did Tasha tell Lawrence? You're the worst kind of fuck boy because you're -- you think you're a good guy. It's the guys who think that they're a good guy and pretend to be a good guy, the serial monogamists who are actually deep inside fuck boys but they're just not being honest about it. And they gaslight you all throughout the relationship and because they don't see it themselves, that they're not a good guy, they're the worst kind. That's the bad breed. And Harper is king of that breed. So that's really the context to why Harper is trash to us.
Scottie: Harper is a weak, fragile human being who feels he needs to control and judge any and everyone to keep people from looking in his direction and questioning his life because his life, who he is, is built on lies.
Sylvia: Yes.
Scottie: So once people start to question him, shit will start to crumble because --.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] The house of cards falls down.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Hello. His fucking foundation was never built with truth. So it's going to crumble.
Sylvia: Yeah.
Scottie: His shit is trash.
Sylvia: He's built on insecurity. And Quentin is the only one who called him out about a lot during the movie too.
Scottie: That's my man. That's my man.
Sylvia: But, so back to the issue at hand.
Scottie: Alright. Yes.
Sylvia: I think we agreed that it was Harper's responsibility to draw the boundary in this equ --.
Scottie: Absolutely.
Sylvia: He's the boyfriend. He's the one who's in a relationship with Jordan.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Absolutely.
Sylvia: He should have shut this shit down the second she asked him.
Scottie: Right. But Jordan, why?
Sylvia: But why, Jordan?
Scottie: Right.
Sylvia: Yes. [laughs].
Scottie: But the fuck why?
Sylvia: Why, why would you do this, sis? [laughs]
Scottie: Jordan, you know --.
Sylvia: You a bad bitch.
Scottie: If she wa one of my friends, you know how hard I'd be laying into this girl?
Sylvia: I do. As one of your friends who self identifies a lot with Jordan, I do know what you would say to me.
Scottie: But you wouldn't do some shit like this.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] No, but I would not do some shit like this. No.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] You wouldn't do some shit like this. Because I could understand, I can understand if Harper was selling it like, oh, we're up in the air, it's complicated kind of shit. I can't even understand that. Niggas knew that Harper had a girlfriend for not one, but two years. Two years. 24 minutes into the movie, Jordan, you find out that Harper's girlfriend is going to come to the wedding.
Sylvia: That you got the time stamp, I'm crying.
Scottie: 24 minute -- yes I do.
Sylvia: [laughs] The receipts.
Scottie: Because at that moment you should have said, Okay well, you know what? This is where I should probably chill because I'm going to eventually see this girl. Right? And it's kind of wrong for you to -- you know you're going to be fake nice. You know you gonna smile in that bitch's face. You know you going to fake hug or handshake or whatever y'all do. But it's like, why would you want to do that to somebody else? Absolutely, Harper should have drawn the line. But you went to the House of the Lord --
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] She was in the church.
Scottie: In front of Psalms, Deuteronomy --.
Sylvia: Okay.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] The Holy Spirit. Jesus
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Jesus was just on the cross behind --.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Mary!
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Can't believe --
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Jesus literally --
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] On the cross behind them.
Scottie: Was just sitting there listening to Jordan say, Tonight, I want to make love to you.
Sylvia: And I know Jesus was up there, I can't believe I died for these niggas. [laughs].
Scottie: I can't --.
Sylvia: I cannot believe I died for these niggas.
Scottie: And then on top of that, you say, Hey, I hope you wear those boxers I like, which were the boxers that you knew that Robin bought for him.
Sylvia: Yeah, that was foul.
Scottie: You're nasty.
Sylvia: That was foul.
Scottie: You're desperate. It's giving desperate and it's getting nasty.
Sylvia: It's giving this -- it's giving bad. So I think that Jordan is wrong. That it's somebody else's man and you should not be trying to cross the line that way. The difference for me is that I can understand how mentally Jordan got to where she got to in asking for this, even if I don't agree with it. So, yeah, I think that Jordan is the kind of girl who always did the right thing, does the right thing. She's presented as very type A, very career driven, high powered producer at BET. Lance is talking about some women like that don't need no man. She damn near a lesbian. You know, all this stuff. She doesn't strike me as somebody who usu -- allowed herself to fall into pleasure or temptation a lot. Like in the book she talks about Harper talks about how they slept in bed together all the time but never had sex. Clearly, she wanted to sleep with him or else she wouldn't even be in this situation now but for some reason, she never did back then. And then when she finds out that Mia and him actually had had sex when she was like, whoa, like everybody was just going for what they wanted and putting themselves first without thinking about other people. And I never did that. I -- so you know what? I'm going to go for mine. And basically everybody except for Harper, except for her. And she was in love with him this whole time, which is quite desperate. But I think it really gives back to that Jazmine Sullivan song "Girl Like Me," where she was like, there's no hope for a girl like me. You're going to turn me into a ho. I feel like Jordan is the kind of girl Jazmine and H.E.R we're singing about in that song a bit. And I do think that sometimes when you have lived your life always doing the right thing, you sometimes choose the worst possible moment to be selfish or to do this thing or make this rash decision. And don't think about the fact that there's consequences that come with that. So to your point, though, despite the fact that I understand maybe how she got to this and some -- or like or why she felt like this was like her shot to see if they were going to be a thing because she had just never been taking it, because she kept waiting for the right time. And there is no -- and maybe she felt like there is no right time because Harper is always fucking somebody or always is -- has a girlfriend or whatever else. I understand that. But the point is, is though, when you do something like that, consequences can occur. And so I do think that, like, the next question is like what happens to cheaters? Should the anger be directed at the partner or also the person they cheated with?
Scottie: Absolutely. If you know of the girlfriend --.
Sylvia: Uh huh.
Scottie: If you know of the girlfriend, absolutely. Jordan deserves to get her he -- her fuckin wig split because of that, because that is just super disrespectful, to me personally. Now, if you didn't know about me? Sure. I can't do nothing about that. Now, I'm not saying that you should be the first one to get hands put on. Absolutely not. Harper deserves the hands. All of them. Leave him D.O.A. right in the restaurant. Then go and find Jordan. You are going to really kiki with me at the wedding. So the fact that you thought that you could do that -- and it's super disrespectful. I didn't deserve the disrespect.
Sylvia: Hmm.
Scottie: Absolutely.
Sylvia: So I think where we differ is like for me, if I'm Robin, I'm -- my only beef is with Harper. I'm always the kind of girl who is like, it's the person who I'm in the relationship with. Now the woman that he, who has tried to like, actively trying to take my man or like do whatever, whatever he allowed you to feel comfortable doing without my presence, that's my problem with him. I'm not going to be friends with you. I'm not going to speak to you. I'm not going to acknowledge you. But I'm like, but you know what? You didn't make any promises to me. I'm not in love with you. You're not the one who claimed that you were going to take care of me. Ba ba ba ba blah. My issue was with my man. That's it.
Scottie: Absolutely. That is absolutely right. But my issue is with you too. [laughter] Because you thought that you can disrespect me and knew of my -- you know of my existence. You told this nigga to wear the underwear that I bought him, that you know that I bought him, cus you like him.
Sylvia: Yeah. That was foul. That was foul. She was feeling -- she got a little too much on that bad girl tip. I don't know if she was listening to City Girls before that it was what. [laughs]
Scottie: Okay. And just because you put a lot of dip on your chip --.
Sylvia: A lot of dip on your --. [laughs]
Scottie: A lot of bad girl on that chip?
Sylvia: Lotta dip on that chip!
Scottie: You better hold that up the next fucking day when I rolled through because I'ma be a tornado. Yes, absolutely.
Sylvia: Okay so speaking of cheating then, you feel like everybody should catch thes hands da da da da da.
Scottie: Absolutely.
Sylvia: So do you feel like Mia should have caught some hands?
Scottie: No, that was old. Old school.
Sylvia: No -- [laughs].
Scottie: It's old shit.
Sylvia: What? [laughs].
Scottie: It's old shit. It's old shit. Also it was revenge. There's a difference. Revenge. She went and got revenge-dick. Listen, that man Lance was sleeping with e'rybody.
Sylvia: E'rybody.
Scottie: E'rybody had touched this man. So my chaotic queen --.
Sylvia: Oh lord.
Scottie: Did what she needed to do in order for her to keep going with this relationship. I don't know why she decided to keep going. I really want more on Mia.
Sylvia: Yes. I feel like we deserve more background on Mia and her thinking. But --
Scottie: Yeah.
Sylvia: But to your -- so you're saying that Mia, the reason why it was okay for Mia to cheat was because Lance cheated first and a lot.
Scottie: Well, it was college. That's first. It's college.
Sylvia: Okay, so there was a youth clause. [laughs]
Scottie: It's a youth clause --.
Sylvia: A college clause. [laughs]
Scottie: Also -- yes, it was a long time ago. It happened. Now we're years past this. We're about to get married. Who would fight her?
Sylvia: Like the fact that Mia never got any heat from Lance about what she did.
Scottie: He couldn't! Revenge dick is different. You can't. [laughter] What are you fighting with me for? You know, you've done all this stuff to me. You've begged for me back constantly. I've let you come back all the time. Now, you've hurt me to no end. And the only way I know to keep going with this relationship is to cheat back
Sylvia: With your best friend.
Scottie: With your best friend. Crazy, chaotic.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Your best friend in the world.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Nuts. Nasty. So mean.
Sylvia: Your best man in our wed -- okay. Alright. I just want to make that clear. But I will say -- and this is a quick aside -- I do think it was foul of Mia cus me and Jordan are best friends. You knew your girl liked Harper and you just -- you just fucked him anyway in college? Like you knew Jordan probably was probably talking about Harper all of college. Like, oh, you know we sleep in bed together -- [laughter] Da da da da!
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Yeah.
Sylvia: You know, and then you still fucked him anyway. [laughs] Jordan should a been like --
Scottie: [Crosstalk] That's what Jordan shoulda said, Bitch are you serious?
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] You know how much I like -- You, you fuck Harper? You knew I was in love with him.
Scottie: Right.
Sylvia: Like I wanted more from the bathroom scene when Jordan found out --.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Yes.
Sylvia: That Mia and Harper had fucked. That is the thing I would have liked to see more of. But --.
Scottie: Yes.
Sylvia: It was a show -- about a movie about the men. So we didn't get much female dialog. So anyway after -- [laughter] After all of that, what's the craziest thing about this movie and what we wish we could rewrite, even though we love it, is that after all of that, Harper thinks Robin will marry him at the end of all of this. And she says, yes!
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Oh god, my good sis.
Sylvia: Harper, Harper, Harper after -- let's be clear, he was going to fuck Jordan. He came to the apartment to do that. He was going to do it. She rejected him. And then he goes to pick up Robin the next day, says he needs her whatever, tries to solve the wedding fix. And then you go and propose at a wedding that you almost ruined already? Like proposing at somebody else's reception, wedding, whatever is totally foul and off balance, no matter what you do, who you are. If you know me and Scottie and ever propose at our wedding, please know that the security is going to escort you out as soon as possible.
Scottie: Oh my God. I'm never speaking to you again.
Sylvia: Like, never speaking to you again. It's the absolute wrong thing to do. But --.
Scottie: Please don't do that.
Sylvia: It's twice as bad when, bro you don't love Robin. You almost cheated on Robin. And Jordan literally had to give you permission and push you on your way to go propose to Robin. That's some crazy shit to me.
Scottie: This just shows you that some niggas, not all niggas and some niggas only see value in their girlfriend until they've put them through stressful, hurtful or painful shit. They only see, oh, look how strong she is. Wow. Okay, now I should think about marriage. Now, I should think about these things because I put her through some shit. So now she's worthy of me asking her to marry her.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Mmmmmm.
Scottie: And that's the nasty part. Jordan persuading this dude to get on a knee is nuts to me.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] It's nuts! [laughs]
Scottie: But what's even more crazier is that your eyes opened to how good of a woman she was simply because you was about to fuck a woman the next day and she decided to still help your ass. So you said, oh, I put her through some shit and she's still, she's still here.
Sylvia: She's the one.
Scottie: Yeah, she a ride or die.
Sylvia: Woooo!
Scottie: Fuck that!
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] [sings] Talk about it Scottie --
Scottie: Y’all won't have that. Not from me. As soon as Harper said, I need you! in that restaurant? I would have said, nigga, you need a therapist.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] On his knee. On his knee.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Yes.
Sylvia: He hit her with the Usher Confessions. That's probably where Usher got it from. [laughter] When he held that girl Robin's waist --.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Please --.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Baby, please! I need you!
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Please!
Sylvia: Voice quivering like no. But Robin was in love, right. That's clear. I mean, from the moment Robin was watching this man and a tub full of roses --.
Scottie: Ugh. God!
Sylvia: Robin was in love. For the women who believe in like, you know, forgiveness and love and like --.
Scottie: No.
Sylvia: Is there any world where we can -- where you can see why Robin said yes?
Scottie: Nope.
Sylvia: Yeah, neither.
Scottie: Not one. [laughter] Hey, I'ma about to say, please if you have any, please help me out cus no. [laughter] You downplayed our relationship this whole time. You still, after two years, have a hard time saying I love you. You have an issue. My good sis needed to know her worth. I needed somebody to remind her of her worth.
Sylvia: Should have never showed up in that way in the first place.
Scottie: For real.
Sylvia: I'm sorry. Maybe if I was still 25 I'd speak differently to this, but at my big age of 31 ain't no way. Ain't no way.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Mm-mm. She needed a big sister.
Sylvia: Ain't no way I could say yes to a proposal that happened the day after. It's not been 12 hours ago that you was trying to fuck somebody else. And your ass ain't even had no ring?!
Scottie: [Crosstalk] You don't have the ring. You ain't have no motherfucking ring.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] You ain't have no ring?! So you didn't even -- this was a, this was a spontaneous moment for you.
Scottie: You got on one knee and proposed to me with your palm --.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] But no ring.
Scottie: Don't piss me off.
Sylvia: A open, empty, just empty as his promises was his hands. Just empty.
Scottie: [laughs] Empty as Jordan's life. [laughter]
Sylvia: I'm saying that I could understand maybe her being like, we're going to take it slow and we're going to have to work it out. While they were dancing, before he proposed, she was like, we're going to have to talk about this. This is not going to be an easy fix. It's not going to happen overnight. Harper was like, I know how to surpass all of this stuff work --.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Yo that is so ---
Sylvia: That she wants me to do. I'm going to get on one knee and just give her what she wants. That way I don't have to do --.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Manipulator
Sylvia: Any of the stuff work that's required of me in this moment. Fucked up.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] He is gross. A narcissist.
Sylvia: And the only reason for everybody who's seen The Best Man 2 and beyond, because I know they got the three part limited series coming out later and Robin and Harper are still together. Only reason I feel that Harper was a faithful husband to Robin is because Lance whupped his ass so bad the night before that Harper was like I ain't cheatin ever again. But Robin ain't give him no consequences. And I think, ain't no way. I can't support it. Anyway. Well, glad we were able to come on one page there, so if we were to rewrite that, Robin would have said, hell no, but thanks. Harper would have just been in the corner while everybody else at the electric slide to Candy. And scene. [laughs]
Scottie: Exactly. Exactly. Because, hell no. Cus absolutely not.
Sylvia: Whew. Well --.
Scottie: That's just -- m-mm. Well, I'm glad we got to --
Sylvia: I -- I really got that off my chest. It's been about--.
Scottie: Chil'.
Sylvia: That was 1999. And even at the age of nine, I knew that it was wrong. That's what's funny.
Scottie: Yes!
Sylvia: When -- I was like, I didn't know how deep. I was new enough to be like somethin' ain't right about this. [laughs]
Scottie: I was like -- yeah it was crazy.
Sylvia: It was crazy.
Scottie: It was crazy.
Sylvia: It was crazy.
Scottie: Please guys, stay away from Harper-ass niggas, please.
Sylvia: And they are -- they're trickier to catch. It's always easy to see why Quentin is the fuck boy or why cheating-ass Lance is a problem.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Yes. Yes.
Sylvia: But it's so much harder to discern a Harper. Stay woke ladies.
Scottie: Please.
Sylvia: Keep your eyes open. [laughs]
Scottie: Stay woke. If you have any questions, please hit us up.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Call the hotline.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Ask.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] The Harper Hotline.
Sylvia: The I Hate Harper Hotline. I could tell you. [laughter] Okay I tell you.
Sylvia: Well, on the topic of whether relationships should be salvaged and what kind of cheating is too much, let's get into where things went off the rails in Love Jones. Because as much, as much as I love this movie --.
Scottie: [sighs]
Sylvia: And it's mostly often nostalgia's sake. And just because asthetics and vibes and romance. There's some shit that's fucked up in this movie. There's like in -- as in every movie, especially the ones written by men in the 90s. The women never get --.
Scottie: Right. [laughter].
Sylvia: Women should never get to be a full fledged character in this and so.
Scottie: Absolutely.
Sylvia: Let's talk about where Nina, who was played by Nia Long.This is a Nia Long double feature, a bad bitch, you know, friend of the show, Nia Long.
Scottie: Absolutely.
Sylvia: Her character, Nina and Darius, who was played by Larenz Tate, both messed up in their situation-ship. Just set it up a little bit. They meet at a poetry reading. Darius played by Larenz, shoots the best -- one of the best shots in cinematic history with that poem. The crowd goes wild. Nina still doesn't give him her number. She just writes love on his hand instead.
Love and his --
And walks away. They see each other at a record store. They talk music. He tries to get her number there. She turns him down as well. But because she was looking for The Isley Brothers CD -- shout out to the taste. Larenz's friend who runs the record shop had Nina's information and and so Larenz pulled up on her, asked her out on a date and she caves.
Scottie: Call the authorities.
Sylvia: And that in itself, in retrospect, is not as romantic as it fell back in the day. It was a little stalkerish. It only--.
Scottie: Called the police.
Sylvia: Please, fellas if you're listening, don't do that part of it. Like, [laughs] find another way. You guys have mad options now. Larenz did -- Darius ain't have no DM. But anyway, moving on. They get into a little, they go on dates, they have sex. They get into a little -- what we today call a situation-ship out. I don't even think you call it a situation-ship. They were just fucking and having fun. Like I think they said, like --.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Just chillin. Yeah.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Just chillin. Just hangin out, with sex, you know, all that.
Scottie: Yes.
Sylvia: But then Nina's ex, like niggas always do--.
Scottie: Circle the -- circle the block.
Sylvia: They circle the block. You know, like I said, these boys is boomerangs. He came back and he wanted her back. Nina's friend Josie gives probably what might be the worst advice I've ever heard [laughter] a Black woman give. It's rare that we be givin bad advice. So I just be so caught off guard. And she says to test Darius by telling him, hey, here's the situation. And see how he reacts to her, saying, she's thinking about going to spend some time with her ex in New York and see what's what.
Scottie: Yes.
Sylvia: So the thing is, is like I, I understand Nina's conflict here. Like, I understand that she's like this ah, this guy who I was going to marry, been with all this time wants to explore things. And I met this really cool new guy who I like. But I don't know if he likes me enough for him to be somebody I should consider enough to drop this guy for. A, Nina probably shoulda chose herself. But also B, I think that, you know, she should have just been honest with Darius and just asked him, hey, what's happening here? Because now I have some life decisions to make and I have to be an adult now. We were having fun, you know, pretending life didn't exist. But now life is coming back in. And I like you. I'm feeling you. But this is happening. What are your thoughts?
Scottie: Ahh?
Sylvia: But then also, I don't know, I kind of feel --.
Scottie: I don't think that was her responsibility.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] I do. I was about to say. Even when I think about it now, though, I do think that, like, Darius was not in the position -- or he shouldn't have been put in a position to tell her what to do. I think that Nina should have decided -- she shouldn't have needed Darius to be still in the picture for her to not choose her ex. Let me put it like that. Like, you know what I mean, like --
Scottie: Yeah, yeah, no. That's a fact.
Sylvia: It's like him -- whether Darius wants to be with you or not should not be a deciding factor in whether you go back to New York or not.
Scottie: Right. I think she just wanted to know how Darius felt about her --.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] There's better ways to ask. [laughs].
Scottie: And she didn't know how to go about it. This is the best way? I don't know how she thought this is the best way to go about it. But, you know, yeah. She went to him and said, hey, you know, how would you feel? Are you cool with that? And his ego spoke before he even got a chance to even give an honest answer. So I, in my opinion, I agree with you what you said of, you know, she should have chose herself and all that. But in my opinion, it's not Nina's fault. You said, oh, we just chillin. Cool. We just chillin. I don't know why she went back to that nigga. But if you say that we're just chillin and there are no feelings involved and you don't have those feelings for me, I'm out. And then when I come back, I'm a hit you and we can chill again.
Sylvia: If a guy had presented to you like this -- like a guy you were casually seeing, that you liked, but you hadn't gotten there, that conversation yet -- said to you like, hey, there's my ex girl has kind of come back in the picture and I am thinking about exploring things with her. I want to know how you would feel about that. Would you really be able to be honest with him and be like, no, because I like you and you should focus on me?
Scottie: First of all, I'm never given a nigga a chance to choose anything. You not choosing. [laughter] There's no choice. I'm not going to be over here trying to persuade you to stay with me on this side.
Sylvia: What if they just ask you?
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Please go to her.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] What if they just ask you? Not to try -- to persuade them, but ask you.
Scottie: How do feel -- I think you should do it. If you're thinking about it, you should do it. You should just count me out. [laughter] That's the best choice. Count me out. But see, the difference is -- [laughs]
Sylvia: I hate that -- I hate that we're giggling because, like, we already know what each other -- [laughter] is thinking or gonna say.
Scottie: He should have did it, Sylvia! That's all that matters. Okay, he should have just said, yo, I like you, but I'm not going to fight. Go back and forth with you about it. I'm not going to try to get you to stay. If that's what you feel is right? Do that.
Sylvia: You're right. He shoulda just been like, hey yeah. I like you and I enjoy what we're doing and I don't want to stop,.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Right.
Sylvia: But I'm also not going to do any more than just say that. But he didn't do that.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Right.
Sylvia: But what is the way for a woman then -- because I think the problem is Josie gave Nina bad advice. We talked about what Darius should have done but would Nina have done in that scenario.
Scottie: Never got -- never had feelings for this nigga in the first place. That's the first mistake.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Well, that's impossible. [laughs]
Scottie: But now that we're here, but now that we're here, now that we're here. Before her ex fiancée --
Sylvia: Yeah. Pops up.
Scottie: Came into the picture, I really wish that they had a conversation and was like, yo, like, I fuck with you. All right, cool. So exclusively? Like, y'all want -- you want to just work on us dating exclusively? You know how I feel about dating exclusively, Sylvia.
Sylvia: Sounds a lot like a little relationship to me, but yes. [laughter]
Scottie: No it's not.
Sylvia: That's how you feel about it.
Scottie: But I think you should go about it just, yeah. Fuck with you. I fuck with you, I like you. But I don't necessarily -- I don't want none of my girls to do that first. Let that nigga come first. And if you don't, he has too much pride or ego to say it, then he ain't for you and keep it moving. I'm sorry. I'm just that way. I can't.
Sylvia: Okay.
Scottie: I have to, I have to see what you're about.
Sylvia: And that might be a little brokenness in us. Like, listen, we're still works in progress too. Like God ain't done working on us either. We don't claim to be perfect. But neither of us are really in the place to express our feelings first. I try to get there sometimes. Because some -- I'm just somebody who works well with -- I need clarity to be able to do my life like. So sometimes the need for clarity will surpass my need to be not first. It's just like that's my balance with it. But I always -- it's always has to be like I'm so uncomfortable because I don't have clarity that I'm being pushed to speak. Like it has to be like I've tried till the very last minute to not do it. Or ask first, so I could do my job kind of a thing. But anyway.
Scottie: The healthy thing to do would be to have like check-ins. To check in with each other and be like, yo, so how are you feeling about this?
Sylvia: So they shoulda not have been playing games and been honest. But they decided to both let their pride get in the way. And Nina goes to New York with Marvin and realizes he's not the one, shocker. But sometimes you need a second round. But what I don't understand is when she came back, where she had the right to be mad at Darius for being with a girl when she saw him at the coffee shop.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] How? I was like now, Nina.
Sylvia: Now, now sis.
Scottie: Girl.
Sylvia: I understand if you could have maybe had hopes, you know what I mean. But it don't mean that if those hopes were incorrect that you have a right to be upset.
Scottie: Upset, no. And then go on to date Darius homeboy.
Sylvia: She tried to pull a Mia.
Scottie: Hollywood.
Sylvia: [laughs] From The Best Man.
Scottie: But at her big age.
Sylvia: But at the -- but with just no stakes involved at all. Like there was no reason for that level of revenge.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Why?
Sylvia: Like nothing happened for you to make such a savage move like that. And also back to Josie, who, you know, I love certain moments but just keeps giving bad advice. She's the one who was like, you should talk to Hollywood. I'm like, Josie, what?!
Scottie: Yeah. She ain't a real friend. [laughs]
Sylvia: Every scene! Every scene, you just keep telling her to do, make bad decisions and you're encouraging them like they're correct. And I don't --.
Scottie: Do it.
Sylvia: Do it, girl. Do it.
Scottie: Do it.
Sylvia: Like, no, don't do it. I'm like, you're on the TV. Don't listen to her.
Scottie: Please don't do that.
Sylvia: Hollywood was pushing for Nina and I get that. Like he was the pursuer there. He done follow her do her job. Everybody just keeps stalking, Nina, honestly in this movie.
Scottie: Shit, I would.
Sylvia: I mean, but she fine so I get it.
Scottie: Hello. First of all, Hollywood was so corny.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Such a -- he's such a ham. Such ham.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] I don't even understand why she would even go in that direction. She was bored. My good sis was bored. So no, she was wrong for that. And also you knew. If he said, hey, I'm taking you to a party or an event or whatever, you didn't think that you wasn't going to see Darius? Eventually?
Sylvia: And he should have given you a heads up. But that was also you assuming that --.
Scottie: He should've.
Sylvia: And that's also you assuming that Hollywood was a good person, which he's not, which is why we're wondering why you're in his herse, with him in the dead bodies anyway.
Scottie: But, you knew eventually. Like, y'all were going to see each other. So --.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] It was wrong as hell.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] You acting brand new.
Sylvia: And you was trying to do your foulness, like under the radar, like you didn't know. Like.
Scottie: Girl.
Sylvia: I just -- just wasn't good.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] It wasn't.
Sylvia: And I will say that for me, why I liked Darius and rooted for him was because I love that even though he was in a situation where -- how like that foul shit happened to him, like he still does the right gentleman thing. When he finds up that Hollywood was an asshole to her, he goes after her and gives her the care that the woman deserves and make sure she gets home safely to Chicago. [laughs]
Scottie: Absolutely.
Sylvia: We were talking about. And to me when he did that and then forced them to have the conversation, even though he waited till the cab was right there to have it. Like that gave me all the points for Darius. Like I was like, see, I love him! He's such a good guy.
Scottie: I think he's a good dude.
Sylvia: Because I know about a dudes who would have not done that. [laughs]
Scottie: At all. They would have been very upset, so mad that they would have just let her walked so far in Chicago. Walked her legs off.
Sylvia: Shouldn't have done it, is what they would've have said. Should have been here.
Scottie: Right. So, yeah, absolutely. I don't think he's a bad guy at all. I just think he had a moment of proud ego and couldn't really express how you felt. And that was it. That was his only wrong, to me personally.
Sylvia: Same. So is Darius and Nina's love more salvageable -- y'all know what I mean -- than Harper and Robin. Like to wrap this whole conversation up. I know why I think so. But let me hear what you think.
Scottie: Well, mine is very to the point. Yes, because Darius likes Nina. Next. [laughter] Answer that question. You next, Sylvia.
Sylvia: Why do men marry women they don't like or love? It's, it's a thing I didn't even realize was happening until I got older. But it's really happening. Like this is real life stuff.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Oh, no, it's happening, chil'.
Sylvia: It's happening. It happened. So [laughter]. But no, yes. To your point, yes. It's because Nina and Darius had a real love connection. You could tell they loved each other and the stakes were lower for them. Darius did not cheat on Nina or attempt to cheat on the other while they were in a relationship, they were still dating and trying to figure out what they were doing when all their messy stuff -- the messy stuff for them happened when it was supposed to.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Right. Right.
Sylvia: Versus like when you're two years into a relationship. And while we don't know if Darius ever did call girl or whatever, whatever while they were in a relationship, now that's questionable. But from what we've seen on camera, I think that they deserve -- and I just thought they fit better together. And I just think Darius is a better man than Harper. Sorry. [laughs] So Yeah.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Absolutely. Absolutely. Without a doubt. 100 percent.
Sylvia: [sighs].
Scottie: So, yeah. I'm glad. I'm glad we got that off our chest.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Got it off our chest. Y'all enjoy those movies. Please go watch Love Jones and The Best Man. I mean, I feel like most Black people have watched these movies and I know y'all probably feel us. Please tell us your thoughts on Twitter, which I'm sure you will. But I think we got it right, Scottie. I think we got it right.
Scottie: Absolutely. Absolutely. I guess the biggest takeaway about this is, stay the fuck away from Harpers. I'm really very serious about this.
Sylvia: Stay away.
Scottie: Stay away
Sylvia: From Harpers and Hollywoods. The H's.
Scottie: Oooh.
Sylvia: Just all around. Just --
Scottie: Ew. Stay away from Hollywood -- girl, please don't be attracted to no Hollywoods.
Sylvia: And pick yourself, ladies. Just know, unlike any of these women in this movie, picking yourself is an option. Like, I just wish one of them would have been like, you know what, I choose me.
Scottie: Choose your peace, like Sylvia said.
Sylvia: I guess Jordan kind of did at the -- but like too late. Because she told Harper, go off to Robin, I'm not even going try to fight for you no more da da da da da.
Scottie: [Crosstalk] Girl.
Sylvia: I'm just going to go back to being by myself.
Scottie: I mean, you are going to be alone regardless. But yes, I hear what you're saying.
Sylvia: [Crosstalk] Wowwww.
Scottie: What you're saying.
Sylvia: Wow.
Scottie: I love Jordan. I just.
Sylvia: Whew, some tough love. [laughs]
Scottie: You knew what you were going to get, honey. Come on. Look at the material that you was fucking with. Look!
Sylvia: And that's why I'm glad, girl, that you're not the one who's married to him at the end. And it's so sad for Robin that she is and that's that. But --.
Scottie: Oh, girl. Ugh. Just.
Sylvia: He was no prize. So.
Scottie: I'm about to say that -- that was her biggest takeaway. [laughter] I survived. I came out of this.
Sylvia: And she knew enough not to fuck him when he showed up at her house that night because he still wanted to, which was wild. [laughs]
Scottie: Which was wild.
Sylvia: But anyway.
Scottie: Why -- I'm not to blow her back out.
Sylvia: No, Lance blew your back out and your eye socket out, and that's what happened instead.
[Music In]
Scottie: Lance sure did blow your back out, sweetheart.
Sylvia: Whewww. Not in a good way. Well, alright. That's our show.
Scottie: Our show is in production of Pineapple Street Studios in partnership with Netflix and Strong Black Lead. Shout out to our team. Our managing producer is Agerenesh Ashagre and our lead producer is Jess Jupiter. This episode was produced by Taylor Hosking and our music is by Amanda Jones. Special thanks to Max Linsky and Jenna Weiss-Berman.
Sylvia: Make sure you share your thoughts with us on the episode using the #OkayNowListen. Follow Strong Black Lead on the socials @StrongBlackLead. And follow us too. I'm @SylviaObell
Scottie: And I'm @IDon'tHaveTimeForAnyOfY'allJordanGirlsComingAtMeOnTwitterBeingUpsetAboutWhatIJustSaidOnThisDamnPodcast. [laughter] Talk to me nice at ScottieBeam.com
Sylvia: Until next time, folks. They blessed.
Scottie: They blessed
Sylvia: I love it when you do that.
[Music Out]